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Leadership Levers
This podcast spotlights leaders' actions so they may enhance their organization’s performance and culture.
We feature CEOs and industry-recognized Subject Matter Experts (SMEs) who share their experiences and insights on three key challenges: people, performance, and profit.
If you are a leader who wants to learn from your peers about improving performance and financial returns, please join us.
Leadership Levers
Shaping a Culture of Positive Change in Business with Judy Ryan
Can workplace culture, well-being, and the creation of a human-centric environment truly impact business goals, talent recruitment, and financial objectives? You bet!
Develop strategies for transforming workplace culture by listening to Judy Ryan, CEO of LifeWork Systems, as we delve into the impact of how believing in the potential of others impacts organizational success.
Our conversation traverses the challenges of leadership in cultural change, highlighting how embracing psychology methods and shunning autocratic tendencies can empower individuals, managers & leaders - enriching the entire company.
Judy's insights shed light on the symbiotic relationship between personal well-being and business goals, illustrating that the cultivation of a human-centric environment is not merely an act of kindness, but a strategic move for attracting top talent and driving bottom-line results.
We discuss real-world examples where the disconnect between knowing and doing is stark, such as the unproductive plague of office gossip and how proper application of training can address such issues.
Tune in for an episode packed with valuable wisdom for anyone looking to strengthen culture and leadership initiatives within their organization.
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Welcome to the Leadership Levers podcast. I'm your host, will Gladhart, CMO at the Culture Think Tank. Our Culture Think Tank community is committed to advancing workplace culture and well-being. We're a virtual hub for authors, investors, leaders, managers and employees worldwide to connect, engage in candid discussions, share ideas and explore resources for cultivating a healthy work environment. We're here today to learn about the actions leaders have taken to address cultural change. Our guest today is Judy Ryan, CEO of LifeWork Systems. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us today.
Judy Ryan:Well, I'm so excited to be here. I feel like you're a kindred spirit already.
William Gladhart:Well, thank you. I thought we'd start by having you share with our audience a bit about yourself, your background and your organization.
Judy Ryan:Okay, thank you. Well, first of all, Lifework Systems. We just started our 22nd year. My background is in Psychology, which is the psychology of Alfred Adler and how it's applied in the world. What I've known for years is that this would be super helpful to the development of organizational culture, and it's now showing up that way a lot of convergence. I read a book about Alfred Adler a number of years ago and in that book the authors, which were two people from Japan, they said that Adler was at least 100 years ahead of his time and he was around about 100 years ago. I agree, because he had an understanding of human nature that most people have not heard of and they have no idea of. What are the ramifications of that. So that's a little bit about my background. If I were to just tell you one thing that I would want your listeners to know is that the mission that I have for the company and for my life is to create a world in which all people love their lives.
William Gladhart:I love that. That's awesome, so thank you for sharing that. We will be discussing three questions today as a warm-up to start our conversation. Would you share why you believe a healthy culture is critical?
Judy Ryan:I think healthy culture is really healthy people. Digital evangel transformations are people transformations. It's really that simple. Most people see the results of not having well-developed, healthy, mentally well individuals, responsible and accountable individuals. They see all the effects of it. We see it through all the Gallup results and engagement and the amount of people that are burnt out and stressed. And so the real question in my mind is why would you not work on the people development aspect until you get it right? Because that is really what culture is it's allowing everyone in the environment to be developed properly in the best way for humans to be developed.
William Gladhart:We'll start with question one. So what do you see as the biggest challenge leaders face when addressing cultural change within an organization? Or you know, what specific challenges have you faced in your own organization?
Judy Ryan:I would say the biggest challenge is that most people do not believe in the greatness of others. They've been kind of trained and conditioned to believe that power is suspect and that you have to dominate it, and that's why we have so many cultures of autocratic behaviors writing people, judging people and even enabling people because we don't have faith in them, we approach them as if they're not to be trusted or that they would be selfish and lazy without our involvement. And I see that as the biggest problem. And it doesn't just start in business. It starts in our homes and in our schools and in our communities.
Judy Ryan:So a lot of times the shock to the business leader is wow, this is core. This is core to the human beings. And I always say I raised my own five children in this and when my kids were four and five years old, they all knew how to run a family meeting, because we developed them so that they would feel empowered, lovable, connected and contributing. And we did tons of unconventional things. We stopped using bribery, we stopped using punishment, we used a method called redirecting negative behavior, which is very honoring to people but also very effective. So I think what the biggest challenges is that we're so mired in our conditioning that we hold people in a negative light and then we bring out the worst in them instead of the best in them.
William Gladhart:Yeah, I think that's a really great sentiment to share as leaders. Many of the times I describe my own experience was just one big blank PowerPoint slide in how to actually address people's issues, how to talk about the challenges, how to approach mental health, well-being all those different components that a leader needs to understand in the workplace. So I think looking at the type and style of leadership that is happening is absolutely critical. I think that's great. You bring that up. So what do you think leaders can do to address the challenges they are facing? And or, what have you done? How have you helped?
Judy Ryan:One of the things that I love that you said right from the outset is when I told you my mission was to create a world where all people love their lives. I remember in the early days marketing people would say to me oh, you can't be telling business owners that they don't care if their people love their lives.
Judy Ryan:I don't want to work with leaders that don't care about their people's lives, because it's short-sighted to be that kind of person. So what we've done is really helped them to change their mind about people, if they're willing. We're very careful who we do business with, because we don't want to push any rocks up the hill, and so we look for people that are aware of where the trends are going, how important the human asset is. A lot of times, agile consultants are a big part of our work because they are already bringing innovative approaches into business, and the wall they keep hitting are the human systems, not the software systems or the business systems.
Judy Ryan:So what we do is we bring in a fully distributive model, and by that what I mean is we don't teach the leaders to just invest in their titled leaders. We teach them to invest in everyone, from CEO to frontline staff and they're not used to thinking that way because they're, you know, kind of old school. Like we can't afford that. That's like saying we can't afford to give everybody a cell phone or everybody a computer.
William Gladhart:Right.
Judy Ryan:Again, it's short-sighted, and so it's really educating the leaders on what kind of model and in our world it's called a responsibility based model and what kind of implementation. Those are the two things that we're really good at. If we have the time to just make sure that they have some inkling of what that is, and then they start getting really excited because a lot of leaders are reading about, in all of these great books that are coming out, all of these thought leaders about the kind of culture that they need, but they have no idea how to implement it successfully.
William Gladhart:I think that's an excellently described challenge from not only the perspective of thinking of the culture and the value of culture in retention, productivity, recruitment etc. But also in the greater piece that it really is the leader that does drive that, regardless of whatever happens at the organization. But also I love that you shared from CEO all the way down to front line to the guy pushing the broom that everyone is on the bus. They're on the same page through that same type of communication, trust and work together.
Judy Ryan:Yeah, go ahead.
Judy Ryan:Well, I was just going to say one of the challenges leaders face is they're so used to thinking of themselves standing apart, yes, being in homogenous groups, separate from their people, and we require that they mix on purpose, that they reverse mentor, that when they're in small group discussions where everybody takes turns leading just like my five kids did that the CEO might lead one month and the next month the receptionist is leading in the same group. And that's on purpose because it breaks down those artificial barriers amongst the various title levels and untitled levels. So I apologize for interrupting you, I just wanted to do a little bit of a hard part.
William Gladhart:Oh no, I think that's a great point and it's a great value of being able to facilitate that. Different types of roles, but also breaking down the types of roles in an organization so well. Thank you for sharing some of those unique insights and thoughts today. Is there anything you'd like to share for our audience or for other leaders?
Judy Ryan:I would say the most important thing that I could share is really about how do you implement a change process that really sticks. So, do you mind, do I have time to tell you a story, absolutely.
Judy Ryan:So I was working with a company of about 600 employees and the CEO was familiar with the psychology model he used and he was all excited about it. But he did not want to take my suggestion to mix the levels first. He wanted me to just work with his C-suite executives, or about 20 of them. Right, and what we do in our model is based on best practices from education, where you what they found in education. If you just lecture to people one time and you just lecture and they're not engaging with the content, they go off and they remember it for the test and then they forget all of it. So there's something called flipped training, where people would be given information. They would reflect on it, write on it, engage with it alone. Then they would come together with their classmates and they would have student-led discussions that were overseen by the teacher and in that way they talked about do we understand it, what's the relevance of it, how would we apply it? If they have an opportunity to practice it, they would practice it and they found that these people would retain what they learned and they wouldn't see the relevance of it and they'd be likely to use it. But we do that kind of on steroids. Not only do people watch individual modules and fill out workbooks and fill out post-training surveys, but then they come together in these staff-led groups and we prepare the group leaders and they rotate every month and they have a group module and a group leader guide and then they come together and mentor all on that same content. So it's like 11 touchpoints on the content. Even right now we're looking to build a 365-day app so that it keeps bringing their concepts and tools and terms and processes.
Judy Ryan:To wrap, this company with 600 people about two months in the CEO says you know what? I don't want my C-suite executives doing homework and mentoring leading groups and all that. I just want you to come in and work with all 52 of my leaders, the supervisors on up, everybody that has direct reports. I just want you to, every other week, do a two-hour session with us on all your concepts and tools for six months, because it was a 12-point program, 12 months. So I said, okay, but here's what you're going to lose. It's like I'm fine with that, I'm fine with that. So in the very first session, we didn't used to rush to do tools, because if you have tools, we have a saying. A tool with a tool is still a fool, correct. So if you don't have the right mindset, the tool is almost harmful.
Judy Ryan:So in the first session I introduced two tools to eliminate and reduce gossip. So if I was doing this first tool with you, will, I would say this to you it's called the Mind Trust. I would say Will I commit four things to you? I won't say bad things about you behind your back. I will come to you if I have a problem with you and talk it out with you directly. I will stop anybody that starts to say terrible things about you. That I might even say I respectfully do healthy venting tool with you, but I won't let you rip on Will. Then the fourth thing Will is I will commit to try to get that person to go directly to you so that they don't hold onto that garage or take it to other people. So I taught him this tool and I said now remember, they're not doing any reflection, writing, thinking or anything on this, they're just all excited. Oh, we love that tool. I said will you go do it with each other, everybody, all 52, face-to-face, on Zoom or in-person. Yes, yes, we'll do that. So two weeks later I come together and I said did y'all do that? Yes, we did it, we loved it.
Judy Ryan:So at the end of the whole program this director calls me and he has been in the program and he has had eight managers that were in this program he said to me, judy, we got all these tools and concepts from you, but we still don't know how to really apply them. It's so much. Could you come in and work with us? I said well, I'm going to be talking to your chief financial officer today. I'll find out if there's budget for that, right. So this is where it gets funny, will.
Judy Ryan:So I call her who. She's a vice president over chief financial officer and she's been in the program and I say so-and-so, would like for me to come in and work with his leaders, because he's trying to figure out how to apply all this. And she says to me oh, he really needs it. He was saying terrible things about me at a meeting and two of his people were so upset they came and told me all the terrible things he was saying. Now you're laughing already because you can see what's coming.
Judy Ryan:So I said oh, I guess they stopped him in the middle of doing that, right, because they have a mind trust with you. She goes oh, I didn't even think of that. And I go. Well, I guess you didn't ask them if they went to him to talk it out with him because they had a problem with him doing this and they have a commitment to him to go to him, right? She goes. No, I didn't think of that either. And I said well, I'm certain that you went to him because you have a mind trust with him and you now had a problem with him. And she said no, she goes. I went and handled on him to his boss, who was a senior vice president, and then she goes and, come to think of it, I find out he was in the meeting and he didn't stop him either. And then she goes. What is wrong with all of us? And I said to her there's nothing wrong.
Judy Ryan:I want you to see why this flipped model is so important, because when I gave you the tool, it was like I gave you a tennis racket and you thought it made you tennis players.
Judy Ryan:But you're not a tennis player until you know the game and the rules and all the ins and outs of it, you get out on the court. Maybe you get some coaching and you fall in love with the game and you start getting some proficiency and you start getting some muscle memory. Otherwise, you just have a tennis racket. And so I tell you that because we're such a fast food society, we just want a workshop and then we're done. And it does not work that way. We don't change long standing behaviors In fact Will. If I committed to you that I was going to come to you if I had a problem with you, if I don't have a whole bunch of other tools to do that, well, I'm not going to come to you because I'm going to be scared to death to come to you. Even with the tools. I might be scared, but at least I got support, I got a mentor and I got a tool or tools.
William Gladhart:Well, I think.
Judy Ryan:So that's why you're indulging me in that Will.
William Gladhart:Yeah, no, I love that you share that because it really reinforces to leaders that change is hard and also, change is not a box, it is a. You know it is a not a one size fits all for everybody, and also that you know it's a marathon, not a sprint. It takes time, it takes intentionality, it takes purpose and you know you don't get to just pick and choose what works. You have to work, you have to work a specific system, whether that's yours, whether that's ours. You know it and work with an expert to help you do that, because more than likely than not, the rate of success is very low for individuals that don't follow that path and literally like hey, we did a workshop on culture. Yay, everybody's great Thanks, thanks for the tennis racket. Now we all are whacking each other over the head.
Judy Ryan:Exactly. That's a great metaphor. We're at each other with the racket.
William Gladhart:Exactly because it sounds like that's what's happening in that company. So, Judy, thank you so much for your time. I've enjoyed having you on today and I appreciate your insights.
Judy Ryan:Thank you, Will. It's been really pleasure to talk with you too.
William Gladhart:Thank you for joining us on the Leadership Levers podcast. You may find all our Leadership Levers episodes in our Culture Think Tank community at www. CultureThinkTank. ai. Join the community at no charge and tune in weekly as we invite leaders to share their experience in strengthening in culture, one action at a time.
